Dublin drag diva Davine Devine talks lashes, lace fronts and loving Irish crowds with OTwo Editors Polly Rogers and Cillian Howley. Davina performs on Thirsty Thursdays and co-hosts SaturGays in the George in Dublin city.
Cillian Howley: You began drag in the 2000s; what would surprise young people today about drag back then?
Davina Devine: The lack of supplies. How to put on lashes; everyone knows how to do these basic things. And you know what’s so funny? Even men know about lashes and all that. Where as back then you could only get lashes in Mac in Brown Thomas. It was really basic and I can’t imagine what it was like for people doing drag before then.
Polly Rogers: Ireland has seen so much progress since then but is there anything you miss about that time?
DD: The fact it was really organic. You learned from each other, it was very community based. We learned our lessons by sitting in the dressing rooms talking to each other, learning from horrific mistakes. There was no social media, there was no record of the disaster. I really miss that. There’s a freedom in screwing up, you know? Now everybody is afraid to look bad but you know it's all part of the process. I miss that.
Cillian: Do you think social media has made it harder for young queens to have that developmental stage?
DD: Oh yeah. Because now, I’m doing drag and [the young queens] have an amazing lace front wig. They’re beat to the gods. I can’t take that seriously because it’s ‘drag by numbers’. Where’s the character, where’s the essence? That can be said for anything creative now. You can learn how to paint, draw but there’s no organic process. Does that make sense?
Cillian: Of course. What advice would you give to drag queens starting out now?
DD: Make sure you’re doing it for the right reasons. I think now people see Drag Race and even things like X-Factor, Big Brother, all these things. People don't want to make art; they just want to be famous. Look what's happening now: Drag Race is starting to teeter off. What’s left is organic local drag. As Ireland goes, you need to have something to say. You can still look like a bag of spanners and be fabulous.
Polly: Back in your early days, before performing in Dublin, you worked around the country. What were those experiences like?
DD: Yeah. I loved doing that. Dublin was a scene in itself but there were big scenes in Galway, Limerick, these other regional places. I think it was my second or third gig; I did a gig in Galway. I remember we performed on four milk crates with a bit of cardboard on top. It was so bad; it was like a death trap but it was great craic. Everybody was so supportive. Each scene was happy to have something going on. People were more connected. I know that sounds mad but it was just a bit more real.
Polly: Have you ever performed abroad in different places?
DD: I’ve travelled all around the world. I was at Sydney Mardi Gras, I was at World Pride Toronto, I’ve been in New York, done Vegas - I’ve done it all. But I tell you this now, nothing beats being at home in the George. I know that sounds ridiculous, but we are so lucky here because we have such a small pond of really good talent. We are well looked after here in Ireland, and I wouldn't swap it for anywhere in the world, and I've been around so… I really mean that. Drag's just getting people to have fun, let loose, forget your fucking troubles for half an hour. Just go have fun; everything is so heavy lately.
Cillian: What is special about an Irish audience and the Irish scene, compared to everywhere else?
DD: They are just up for the craic; they don’t take it seriously. When you look now, it’s very interesting, actually, the queens in America have to work so hard - Drag Race has been a big influence. You always hear, go and support local queens, and I feel bad for the hardcore girls that bust their balls in those little local bars. America moved much quicker than anywhere else. In the UK, I remember years ago when we were starting drag, it was all about sequin dresses, short wigs, diamond earrings and singing around the old campfire. They really frowned on lip-sync queens; I remember we did gigs with them before, and they thought we were trash - there was real snobbery. They were coming from the likes of Lily Savage, Dame Edna, real comedians singing live in working men's clubs. And now it's so funny the way that's shifted; they are into the lip-syncing queens, and it's become the “thing”. Drag culture is constantly shifting and evolving; it’s weird but very interesting to watch. We have been lucky in Dublin, but I think that's just Irish people. I know that sounds very patriotic, but we are so alike - the Irish.
Polly: Which drag queens or pop culture figures were your earliest influences?
DD: The Irish queens were my biggest influence. The only way you’d see other drag is if you went to these other places. I did do that in my early years; I travelled around. I lived in Canada for a while. I met some amazing black queens, Latino queens and trans performers. That was unheard of here. My inspiration was homegrown talent: Panti Bliss, Shirley Temple Bar, Veda. You know what was inspiring about them? They made careers from it.
Cillian: You made your Dublin Fringe debut with The Diary of a Dublin Drag Diva. How have years of balancing different skills and talents sustained your career?
DD: Over the years, I’ve done so many things. I sang, I acted, I modelled. I feel I’m a bit of a chancer. You have to take the chance. If you get stuck in a box, it's very limiting and very boring. I have ADHD so I can’t sit still.
Cillian: How did the audiences at the Fringe compare to the club scene in Dublin? How did you find navigating that?
DD: Well, that was a very different experience. Going into an environment where you have to talk continuously for a 90 minute show, I was really nervous. The first time, it sounds strange, but I didn't anticipate how vulnerable it was going to be. Because it was my life; it was talking about my story, my experiences and when I was talking, I remember being onstage and going, “Oh my God, I can't believe I’m talking?” For me, it was actually really cathartic. The thing about it was actually going back over and thinking about how much I had done and how far things have come - how far the country had changed - so it became a bit of a legacy piece as the show moved on. Fringe is very experimental; one thing I learned is I have a product, but things can change. It's like a laboratory, and by the time I came back with it in the summer, it was a completely different show. It was a real look back culturally and personally. It was a really good experience and it's given me a hunger because I know now I can really flourish in that space. So it's given me confidence. You never really stop learning, so it was a really, really good experience, and I'd recommend it to anyone.
Cillian: A very unserious question; on the poster for SaturGays, your cartoon is wearing a Cookie Monster dress, and you've also worn a silver and pink Elmo jacket. Is Sesame Street a big influence?
DD: No, no, not at all! I think it's just a coincidence. I actually have that dress in real life. I used to work with this designer, Finnoula Burke. She used to make all these quirky costumes, and I had two Muppet dresses. I went through so many phases costume-wise. You get to do replicas of things; I think the Cookie Monster dress was around the Katy Perry era, where she was wearing candy floss. I used to love things that were a bit camp. I had Lady Gaga's bubble dress recreated for Pride one year. Drag gives you that licence to live your fantasy and have a bit of fun; that's what it's really about. Drag has to come from you, and it gives it that authenticity.
Cillian: During SaturGays karaoke, is there a song you never want to hear butchered again?
DD: ‘Black Velvet’; is a pretty bad one; ‘Shine’ by Take That is pretty horrific as well. They are pretty grim. ‘Valerie’’; I've heard it sung only a handful of times well. It's always the songs that are a little shouty, just because you can open your mouth and make noise doesn't mean you're actually singing! SaturGays, I'm actually doing longer than Thirsty Thursdays. I started in 2006; that's 20 years this year, so it's been a long time listening to the likes of ‘Valerie’. Sometimes you get theatre kids at karaoke, and that's magical.
Polly: Does shaking off Davina after a performance ever come easy, or are you very intertwined with the character?
DD: I’m very separate; I don't mix the two, and that's the way I like it. I don't like how, in this day and age, we all want to know everything about everybody; there's no mystery left, and I feel it doesn't benefit me to share everything. I just don't see the point. You’ve got to hold something back for yourself, and I like just sharing the bits that I want to share. I think it's more interesting, you know?
Polly: Your old performing partner April Showers left drag for the corporate world. Have you ever considered hanging up the wig?
DD: I don't know if I’ve contemplated hanging up the wig but I have contemplated what I would do next. I never went to college so a couple of years ago I went to a career guidance course. I did intensive tests to find out what I was good at. At the end, I was told “you’re actually in the perfect job”.