EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW - Leading UCD Academic Talks Ireland’s Role in the World, and Prospects for Middle East Peace

Image Credit: Aaron O'Muircheartaigh

Features Editor Michael Keating Dake sat down with UCD’s Dr Ben Tonra to discuss Ireland and the EU’s respective foreign policy strategies, and shared his perspectives on contemporary geopolitical developments.

Dr Ben Tonra is Full Professor of International Relations at the UCD School of Politics and International Relations. He has also served in a number of distinguished roles with prominent think tanks and NGOs, and is considered a leading expert on Irish diplomacy and foreign policy strategy. Dr Tonra kindly agreed to sit down for an exclusive interview with the University Observer, sharing his perspective on contemporary geopolitical developments. This interview was conducted via Zoom on 23rd August 2024.

Dr Tonra provided some background information on the historical context in which Ireland’s strategic approach to foreign affairs has evolved over time. He explained: “Ireland traditionally presents itself as a small, open polity. Very much reliant on and committed to (...) the multilateral order, the rule of law, international institutions, the peaceful resolution of disputes. So Ireland has always characterised itself as a good international citizen. Particularly committed to the U.N. That has evolved over time. That commitment to the U.N, I think, is still exceptionally strong and central to Irish foreign policy.”

Dr Tonra provided further information on how Ireland’s diplomatic strategy has evolved with respect to both multilateral engagement within U.N structures and the project of European integration: “[U.N engagement] has also been joined by, since the 1970s, a commitment to European integration and the building up of the European polity. Those two things generally run hand in hand, because both are multilateral organisations, both are rooted in the rule of law, and both facilitate small states’ engagement in the international system. But there have been sort of neuralgic points between the two, particularly as pertains to what is referred to as Ireland’s traditional military neutrality.”

Dr Tonra’s mention of Ireland’s long-standing tradition of military neutrality leads me to ask him why Ireland’s foreign policy towards the Middle East might lead some to characterise the country as “anomalous.” Dr Tonra shared his views in response: “No, I wouldn’t say Ireland is anomalous at all.

There are countries that have a much stronger position than Ireland with respect to Palestine.

Sweden for example. (...) France also is very pro-Palestine, from its perspective. And then you have countries who are at the other end of the spectrum. So, what you see in the European Union with respect to Irish foreign policy, is certainly not Irish exceptionalism by any stretch of the imagination. There is a spectrum of opinions, and Ireland veers towards one end of that spectrum, alongside several other member states. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with military neutrality. This is a traditional foreign policy position of Ireland since the Bahrain Declaration in the 1980s.”

I found Dr Tonra’s response interesting, primarily because it challenged the notion that Ireland is somehow an aberration among western capitalist democracies, and also because it illustrated how the state’s reluctance to directly engage in foreign armed conflicts has not necessarily translated into an unique or exceptional foreign policy. Intrigued by this, I asked Dr Tonra about the perception that Ireland is more critical of Israel than other western states.

He responded: “Ireland is critical. As I said, Ireland is towards one end of the spectrum that I described. But there are other countries in that spectrum as well. I mean, you saw the Israelis booting out more than half a dozen Norwegian diplomats because of Norway’s stance on Israel-Palestine. As I say again, Sweden is very strong. Spain was very strong on this too. To be very frank with you, there is a certain level of self congratulatorisation [sic] of Ireland by its own media and its own people. ‘Aren’t we great? Aren’t we brilliant? Aren’t we the most amazing and different people in the world?’ And we’re not.

There’s a spectrum of views, Ireland is at one end of the spectrum. But it is perfectly within the European mainstream.”

I asked Dr Tonra if he thinks the recent mainstreaming of anti-Israel views correlates to the difficulty involved in achieving the two-state solution. He explains: “Absolutely. I think from the Oslo process onwards everybody had an agreed line. Everybody wanted a two-state solution. The problem has been that, certainly the Israeli government under Binyamin Netanyahu, and at times the Palestinian Authority has been equivocal on this, in terms of making that two-state solution an actual reality. And I think that particularly to its settlements process, particularly to its domestic legislation, and in terms of its foreign, security, and defence policy, Israel has made the prospect of a two-state solution increasingly difficult. Some would even say at this point it is untenable.”

Dr Tonra discussed how Israeli policies contravening U.N resolutions have alienated mainstream international opinion, provoking anger from those who would have traditionally characterised themselves as allies of the Israeli state. Continuing our discussion on the Israeli role in the peace process, Dr Tonra states: “To be fair to Israeli civic society, you’ve seen mass mobilisation of Israeli civic society opposing Netanyahu and opposing the far-right in his administration. But for whatever reason, and I know little-to-nothing about Israeli domestic politics, those forces have not yet been able to be decisive in terms of defining Israeli policy. And it is a tragedy for Israel. I think it’s a tragedy for Israel, speaking as an outsider, but that is the situation in which the Israeli state finds itself.”

Dr Tonra then discussed the importance of sensitivity regarding semantics, using an interesting analogy: “We have to be extraordinarily careful how we use categories of Jewish, Zionist, and Israeli. (...) and to my mind, and again I’m not an academic in that field, but to my mind a Zionist is a Jewish nationalist. It is someone who is Jewish who sees the Israeli state as being a Jewish state. I see why people try to make the distinction between Jewish and Zionist, but it’s very problematic to my mind.”

Dr Tonra is referring to a recent controversy covered by this paper, in which Oliver Sears, son of a Holocaust survivor and founder of Holocaust Awareness Ireland, penned a piece for the Irish Times criticising encampments held on Irish campuses by small cohorts of students bearing anti-Zionist statements, including calls for “Zionist-free zones.” 

Dr Tonra and I discussed the concerns that arose as a result of the controversy, given that Judaism represents a culture as well as a religion. “Judaism is not just a religion. It is an ethnic-national construct. Now, every nationality is a construct, of whatever kind. But it’s a very unique kind of construct, which is rooted in particular faith, but with very clear ethnic and national identifications, in a way that Catholic and Irish simply doesn’t. Or Protestant and Irish simply doesn’t.” 

We return the discussion to Ireland, the European Union, and the international community’s respective roles in promoting peace and a two-state solution in the region. “In the current geopolitical context [the two-state solution] is almost impossible. Because you have multiple forces in the region (who are) playing geopolitical chess in the Middle East. Between the Iranians, the Russians, the Chinese, the Americans, even the European Union, there are lots of people who have spoons in this soup, and it’s just not working.”

Dr Tonra attributes the failure of the peace process to a combination of domestic Israeli policy, Palestinian domestic politics, the feud between Fatah and Hamas, and external factors caused by malevolent geopolitical actors. Dr Tonra laments how, despite the more conducive geopolitical atmosphere of the Oslo Accords era in the 1990s, the two parties ultimately couldn’t bring themselves to resolve the conflict at that time. Despite this, he argues that if there is a mutual wish to end the conflict, “(the solution) is in front of them.”

On this cautiously optimistic note, I asked Dr Tonra how countries like Ireland can support and foster peace in the region, despite the present deadlock. He argues: “(...) everybody has to be a voice for peace. And, I think the Irish government has a solid track record, particularly in supporting the Palestinian Authority, supporting Palestinian civic society. Being an advocate for peace, a peaceful resolution, and a two-state solution.” However, Dr Tonra notes that many Israelis view Ireland as a hostile actor, and a voice for Palestine, rather than one for peace. He describes feeling “shocked at the level of antipathy from ordinary Israelis towards Ireland and the Irish state” after a visit to Jerusalem a couple of years ago.

“One can only hope and trust that the local parties will come to a realisation that neither side is going to win this through force of arms. There has to be a political settlement. The only shape of a political settlement that is lasting is a two-state solution.

And if a two-state solution is there on the table, I think the international community will be there to support it.”